Thursday, May 31, 2007

I Know How She Feels

Currently catching up on my feed reader....

I've had a tough time even looking at a computer the past couple of days - much less doing anything on one. So Tony Karrer's comments on an insightful post by Angela White proved to be quite timely.

Angela describes what we all go through - particularly when we have been blogging for any length of time (like a month).

There's 2 parts to this issue - as far as I can tell.

Part 1 is the overwhelming amount of information that you can gather through the RSS feeds. Neglect them for a day - and you start feeling WAY behind. (Joitske Hulsebosch has a great comment on Tony's post regarding this very issue). You see lots of stuff to comment on, yet you find you don't have the time or energy (for whatever reason) to process all of this new knowledge.

Part 2 is actually writing down your thoughts in anything resembling a coherent fashion. Any creative endeavor requires energy. If your creative energy is being spent other places (either out of desire or necessity), it becomes much harder to focus on writing for the blog. At least, that has been my experience.

The past few days - I've been fighting through the physical, emotional and mental exhaustion that accompanies the conclusion of a major project. I stare at my feed reader and idly click the Next button - if only to lower that nasty (100+) number that mocks me. I've opened Blogger twice this week with the intention of posting something and stare at the screen.

All you can do is trust that an idea or thought will eventually become so compelling that you just have to write about it.

Wednesday, May 23, 2007

Support Week Days 2 and 3 - Fighting Back

The docs are getting comfortable enough with the system now to start nit-picking it.

Why does the button do this rather than that?

Can I redesign the screen?

It's slow! Are you going to fix it?

All part of the process. We have run into the expected technical issues (especially since we are working with a beta product). Otherwise - things have worked as expected.

The clinic has been much busier over the past couple of days. More docs, more patients, more being yanked around addressing issues and questions. The vendor's folks are noticing how tired the client's folks are. Personally, I'm exhausted and I'm finding that my sense of humor is disappearing.

We're at a point where I am starting to make myself scarcer around the clinics I am supporting. Trying to nudge people into independence. Seems to be working - my phone has been quiet for the past hour.

At the end of yesterday's clinic, the boss and the vendor's chief technology officer held a surprise party for the team. The organization gave each of the folks helping us a nice engraved crystal clock. The vendor sprung for good wine, 6 bottles of Veuve Cliquot and 2 bottles of '98 Dom Perignon. A good (if short) time was had by all. I think doing that sort of party mid-week was a good idea. Helps to motivate the team halfway through the toughest part of the go-live process - getting out there and supporting frustrated users.

Tuesday, May 22, 2007

Support Day 1 - Did it stick?

I went into Monday morning with dread. Gearing myself up for the inevitable pull from multiple directions and the wrath of frustrated people.

We had some technical issues in the morning, but it was otherwise uneventful.

Even happier - people generally remembered what we showed them in training. The general comment from the docs:

It slowed me down a little bit - but only because I am still figuring out where things are.

The biggest thing they seemed to forget was where to add information. Otherwise, they navigated pretty smoothly.

The providers I worked with yesterday were out the door on time. To me - that is success.

We only had a problem with one department - a department we expected to have a problem with. Some of the providers in that department took the opportunity to lash out at the contract trainer who was providing support for the area. I went to that department to help for a bit yesterday morning. One of the docs - hoping to find someone who will put up with her grief - lashed out at me.

I had dealt with this doc before and knew that she gets like this when learning something new. Didn't help that we were having technical problems on the machines in her exam rooms that day. I let her go 3 minutes - then told her the same things the contract trainer did to help her. We'll do what we can to deal with the technical issues. We understand she's frustrated. These are the issues we are aware of and are working to resolve. Thank you for your patience. Then I walked away - dragging the contract trainer with me and leaving the doc yelling like a maniac down the hall.

I wish that was the only person in that department we had problems with. Saddest of all - the person who was supposed to be the superuser in that department spent the entire day bad-mouthing us, the new upgrade, and everything to do with the project. For no good reason other than her frustration.

By the end of the day, the trainer was the most upset I had seen her throughout this entire project. She's normally a very bubbly personality.

So I am waiting for the boss to come in this morning to see what we can do to mitigate some of the issues in that department and to get some backup for the contract trainer. A couple of our staff helped her yesterday afternoon - but they had to be in and out. And we don't have enough bodies to supply a full time staff person for support.

This is what change management looks like in the trenches. Exhausted staff trying to support frustrated docs.

And, oddly, after 5 years of doing implementations - it struck me that this first implementation day is the smoothest I have ever been involved in. Why? Because by 2pm - I was in the way and not needed. That's a great feeling.

Sunday, May 20, 2007

Go Live Weekend

I'm always amazed at the issues that arise when an application is moved from test to live.

The network team had spent a LOT of time Saturday making sure everything was kosher for the superusers on Sunday. Guess what - we wound up having to touch probably 200 machines today. About 150 more than hoped.

The server crashed 30 minutes before the go live decision was supposed to be made. We wound up sending our superusers home - leaving the IT department to test the remaining PCs.

Lots of things that had been fixed through the various builds suddenly stopped working.

Then we found a couple of design issues that had always been there - we just never noticed until now. With as complicated as this system is, I'm kinda surprised we caught it before our docs did.

So - 20 hours later and 80 hours into the longest workweek ever (only 5 more 12 hour days to go), we are going live with this new system.

I hope Monday is not as bad as we all fear.....

Saturday, May 19, 2007

Week 2 Day 5 - A Successful Benchmark

I'm so excited I can hardly stand it.

Training went better than I could have imagined.

As one of my co-workers put it - "For you - it's all about Monday."

For those who will serve as floor support next week - I'm starting to plant the bug that I want them to pay attention to repeat questions and areas where people seem to have trouble.

The last day of training was uneventful. Save for the image of me hopping around like a jacked up maniac because the hard part of this project for me is over. Now - I can kick back and do whatever people tell me to do.

Thursday, May 17, 2007

Week 2 Day 4 - Mucky Muck Visit 2

Today's visits - the CEO for the vendor (expected), the CTO for the vendor, and some other high level person who's title I don't know.

The CEO and CTO surprised me and one of the contract trainers during one of the sessions.

After 2 minutes, the CTO sidled up to me and asked "Are you nervous?"
Yes. For 2 reasons. 1 - I'm praying that what we did works next week. 2 - The desire to impress alternating with the feeling that they are in my way makes me uncomfortable with important visitors.

I only told the CTO the first reason.

The visits went well. Even if that meant the 10:00 sessions were somewhat chaotic. Mad props to the contract trainers who handled the situation with professionalism and grace. After 9 intensive workdays together, I trust these 4 contract trainers implicitly. I'm not very trusting of strangers - so for me to say that is HUGE.

We went out for celebratory beverages last night. It dawned on me that this whole experience reminds me of theatre. You work so hard for so long with a group of people planning and prepping. The bickering and arguing that occurs during this time is part of the process. The show finally starts and during those performance days, you are ON. At this time, people become very close if they haven't already. When the run ends - there is a sense of loss as the group breaks up.

We're losing one of the team on Sunday as the training ends. I think I'm gonna miss these people.

Wednesday, May 16, 2007

Week 2 Day 3 - Mucky Muck Visit 1

The Director of Training from the vendor came to visit us today and observe the classes. For whatever reason - I found myself to be INCREDIBLY nervous.

Didn't help that the morning classes were as slow as molasses. One person here, two there... The only classes that were hopping were the specialty classes for the administrators.

Things started picking up around 10:00am. The advanced provider classes started to get crowded and we had more takers for Basics. The CEO sending an "attend training or else" e-mail helped traffic. Still few takers for the advanced staff training - so I think I am going to turn that classroom into a Workshop room for the final 2 training days.

The Director of Training was very impressed with what she saw.

I really like the way you focused on the workflow for each of the individual groups. And how you only showed them what you absolutely need to know.

My first reaction (fortunately, not said aloud) - no duh. Why would you train something like this any other way?

But from a vendor perspective - they have to consider a wide range of audiences with varying workflows.

Here is the problem with the traditional vendor application training approach with the current upgrade: there are so many ways to customize this new electronic medical record that there is no way to make sense of this beast unless they take that individual site's workflows into account. If you have a classroom with multiple sites represented and mulitple workflows, all you are going to do is confuse everyone. From our hard experience, the system doesn't make much sense to a newbie until you have at least a baseline configuration to work with that comes close to mimicking something familiar.

My recommendations to the training director:

- Ditch the "scheduled" project team training where you have multiple folks from all over attend one "standard" training and make project team training an integral part of the sale and upgrade packages. This will allow you to really focus on what the customer does.

- Set up some standard modules based on some "common" workflow models. Example: Module 1) Refills entered by staff and authorized by provider. Module 2)Refills entered by staff and authorized by physician assistant - reassigned to the provider if there is a variable out of protocol. Module 3) Refills entered by Physician Assistant or Provider. Most sites will use at least 1 of these flows. Those modules can then be mixed and matched to more closely reflect the workflow of the practice they are training.

- Since you will have a mixed audience of IT folks and clinical folks - show the end-user interaction AND how to set that example up. This will show the IT folks what the end-user has to do and give the clinical folks some understanding of the various options available to help them make a decision about how to configure the system to optimize their processes.

The client is looking for concrete examples of how the system can be used in "real life." They frankly aren't interested in how to push all of the buttons and the 15 different ways to perform a task. This is where so much software training really falls flat.

Show me the 1 best way to do something, how to avoid any pain, and I will be a happy camper.

Tuesday, May 15, 2007

An Eloquent Thought.....



Hugh MacLeod is more eloquent than anything I can come up with.

Week 2 Day 2 - Getting Informal

After a quick lull - the classes are starting to get more popular. We are up to 105 people through our courses this week.

I led the Advanced Provider training this morning. At 7am, I made the decision that all of the courses for the morning were going to be "workshop" style. The contract trainer I paired with this morning is very strong. As a result, I took some of the docs in each session and she took others.

This approach worked well - especially since the classes only had 3 or 4 people. I had also decided that there was 2 things they needed to walk away with. The more important takeaway was the time spent figuring out how they were going to work this new system in the clinic on Monday. One of the docs, who has expressed reservations throughout the project, walked away happy. So much so that one of his colleagues told another trainer -"He's really really happy. What the heck happened?!?!?"

What made the oddly enthusiastic doc happy was that he found he could do exactly what he does now in less time. Even better - he could see patients and enter information in a way that he can later use to run reports to see whether his interventions are working.

I'm not about to look that gift horse in the mouth.

The real test, of course, will be Monday's clinic. From what I'm seeing of the schedules at a glance, karma is conspiring to make the clinics in ALL of the departments unusually busy. I'm bringing my flak jacket.

Monday, May 14, 2007

Week 2 Day 1 - Where Did Everyone Go?

Ah yes...the Monday after a holiday (Mother's Day). People calling in "sick." Understaffed clinics during the busiest outpatient day of the week in our clinic.

The Director of Medicine and I are team-teaching 2 courses we dreamed up at the spur of the moment last Thursday. Thus far, I have seen a whopping 2 people. 1 at 9am and 1 at 10am.

I'd like to tell you I am getting a lot of work done on the side. I'm not. Coming to work at 4:30am really puts a damper on one's productivity later in the day....

The other rooms are not doing much better. I think altogether, we've seen about 15 people today in all 4 rooms. Considering we still have about 300 outstanding users plus another 400 that need to go through secondary training - I'm a bit worried.

Doesn't help that it is mighty pretty out right now.

1 more session scheduled at 4pm. Half hoping that no one shows so I can go play golf - then go to bed early to prepare for another 12 hour day tomorrow....

Saturday, May 12, 2007

More thoughts on PowerPoint

In the comments, Emma asked "What do you want to SEE in the PowerPoint."

Anything other than PowerPoint.

You know...fun exercises, discussion, games, other modes of imparting information in a way that might stick.

I even find myself missing the "good old days" of grainy, illegible blackboard drawings, overhead projectors and slide shows.

I take my own notes anyway (I learn more this way and it keeps me from falling asleep), so I don't particularly care if I'm given the PowerPoint as a handout.

Lectures and presentations aren't going away anytime soon. And PowerPoint remains the tool of choice to support these presentations. Heck, a part of my job is designing presentations and PowerPoint for the boss. If only because conferences (and the boss) expect these types of presentations.

When I design PowerPoint for the boss, I create 2 PowerPoint files.

- File 1 - the one he reads off of and handouts
- File 2 - the one with supporting graphics, main takeaways and embedded multimedia

Again, if I can get people to stop reading their *%#!*# slides, I will be a happy camper.

Week 1 Day 5 - Flexibility and Goodwill

I spent much of the day training doctors and finalizing plans for week 2 of training.

Things that seem to work:

- For the provider training - maintaining a level of flexibility over the course. Answering questions immediately. Emphasizing things that they may be interested in.

- Reiterating the opportunities they have if they want more help. Inviting them to come back to training if they want. Inviting them to workshop sessions for more 1 on 1 attention. Repeating support plans so they don't feel so abandoned.

- Workshop sessions. We've had more takers than I figured we would. Even more importantly - saying that these more individualized sessions are available - whether they take advantage of them or not - seems to breed goodwill. Of all the stuff we planned, this was the best idea yet....

Many of our provider sessions wind up evolving into workshops anyway. Not freaking out when you "lose control of the class" works well. Especially when there is a second person in the room to help handle side questions. Address those questions immediately, and the providers seem much happier. Address those questions on the side rather than in a public forum, they are happier still.

If I had the resources and time to do more 1 on 1 training with the docs, I would have. For what we had to work with, this system worked well.

-----------------------------------------------

I spent the brief gaps in the schedule planning for week 2. We never really finalized our plans for that second week because we wanted to see who showed for the training and if other needs should be addressed.

We had fantastic turnout for the administrative and front desk training. I think we got almost everyone - plus a bunch of people at the hospital. So - no Administrative Basics needed for the 2nd week. I had designed the 4 courses to be reasonably interchangeable, so if an administrator wanders into Basics next week - he or she will still get what they need.

Looking at the attendance sheets for the training - I saw large clinical chunks of some departments that did not make it to training. Especially providers. I'm not terribly surprised. So 1 classroom - full sessions - Provider basics. I'm sticking my least comfortable contract trainer in that classroom and hoping for the best.

Actually - now that I write that sentence, it's striking me that this is not such a good idea......I now wish that she was more comfortable with the portions of the program we need to teach. I'm also a little concerned since the other 3 contract trainers picked up the new material so quickly and she didn't. Can't do much about that now....

We separated out the "advanced" training into providers and staff again. Same material, slightly different emphasis. And it will allow the provider sessions to "devolve into chaos" again. This will be a good thing.

The Director of Medicine and I will teach alternating "advanced" classes for the administrators to address some of the new features and tasks the providers will generate as a result of this upgrade. Also to give them more familiarity with that the docs will do in this system. Because we all know that the docs will go to their secretary for help. Might as well prepare them....

I wish we had more trainer bodies in the MFA rather than just the 4 of us. Right now - we're just going to try to stay flexible and hope that next week goes as smoothly as the last.

Thursday, May 10, 2007

Week 1 Day 4 - The Freaks and Procrastinators

We set up our training so we had a bit of flex as we figured out who was going to show and how people were going to react. It looks like that we are going to get all of our Admin staff through by Friday - so no need for Basic training for administrators during the second week.

We are also getting most of our medical assistants and half of our registered nurses through. So we decided to set aside one room to make sure all of our providers got through the training. We also decided to separate our more advanced providers from the staffers. 2 more rooms accounted for.

The fourth and final room is going to tackle the more senior admin staff and introduce some of the new tasks that they might receive as a result of the upgrade. There are 2 goals to the trainings that the Clinical Director for Medicine and I are designing for the 2nd week.

1) Make sure that the support staff is comfortable with some of the new tasks that the doctors may generate as a result of the new features.

2) Make sure they know enough about what the providers are being taught that they can help them in the clinic.

We know that the docs lean on the support staff more than any of them are willing to admit. We figure that if the support staff is comfortable - any failings on the part of the docs will be covered.

There is, however, circumstances where this can be taken too far...

I had been complaining about docs sharing passwords and having their support staff do things that the docs should be doing (such as prescribing medication) for months. With our organization's move towards fingerprints as passwords, the senior management is finally seeing concrete evidence that docs are sharing passwords with staff and residents.

Much of the hesitancy is the result of staff fearing that they will not have jobs if they stop doing the work that rightly belongs to the doctor - like prescribing and refilling medications. Even more scary - some doctors DEMAND and expect their staff to do these activities simply because they don't want to be bothered with the "work."

This is the scary underbelly of medicine. And the type of thing major technological change brings to light....

Meanwhile, I am scrambling to get rooms scheduled, marketing material for the trainings put together and attendance reports compiled. I am also trying to crank through the new training material enough times so that I can lead the new training with only a rough outline.

Since we are getting close to the end of the first mandatory training week - we are starting to see the procrastinators and troublemakers. Training that had taken only 60 minutes is now taking 90 - and giving the trainer a few gray hairs in the process The freaks, complainers, and procrastinators are starting to make their appearance in the classrooms.

Everyone in the training team is starting to look really tired. Tomorrow - I hope to have enough time and space to get some of the prep work done for next week. Anything I can do to avoid working this weekend will be time well spent.

Wednesday, May 09, 2007

PowerPoint - my thoughts

Please don't read the PowerPoint.

After 10 years of higher education - I am perfectly capable of reading the slides by myself.

Thank you.

Week 1 Day 3 -the Calm Before the Storm

The days classes were lighter than expected. I guess I shouldn't have been surprised. Wednesdays around here are either very busy with double-booked clinics or the docs are at the hospital doing rounds and surgery.

We're expecting the feet-draggers to start showing over the next couple of days.

One surprise has been how receptive the administrative staff are to the new things they will need to do. We were all expecting a lot more pushback from this group. Instead - they seem genuinely excited. Maybe someone started spiking the water....

The main point of pushback that I've seen has been the move towards biometric passwords (fingerprint recognition) for our Electronic Medical Record. Some people are INCREDIBLY concerned about how the organization is going to use those passwords. Unless I'm being misled, the only thing we plan to do with this information is to use biometrics to ensure that passwords aren't shared or forgotten. No files to the FBI. No background checks that haven't already been done. I can understand why folks are nervous, though.

Day 3 is over. 7 more to go....

Week 1 Day 2 - Deer in Headlights

Wendy - I think you and I need to do the provider training.
This was not what I wanted to hear first thing in the morning.
From the questions I've been getting - I don't think our contract trainers will work. And we haven't been getting a consistent provider presence.
I'm afraid she's right.
I'm also worried that their teaching style is really going to turn them off. The contract trainers act like teachers. They are a little too perky and repetitive. I don't think that's going to work.
I think she's probably right there too. This group seems to respond better to cranky and direct. This may be why I'm still employed.
We are never going to be able to give them enough context to really be useful. And I think that with this group - they can't go by the book like they can with the other trainings.
Judging from the "deer-in-headlights" stare we've been getting after 60 minutes from most of the providers, she's right here as well. There are times when I really hate that.....

I reworked the schedule for the rest of the week so that Gesine (the trainer I was speaking with) and I deliver the provider trainings. We also recruited the apps team for more time in the other rooms to make up for our lack of availability. Hate to say it, but I think this is going to work better.

We scheduled our day so that we have 30 minutes to debrief (and eat) at 1pm and a 1 hour "workshop" session in all of the rooms for more personalized time with the system. Already - these sessions have become popular with the doctors. They are realizing that the 60 minutes they gave us (didn't find that out until last Wednesday) is not enough time. So many of them are taking it upon themselves to attend multiple sessions and attend the workshops. 2 days in, and I've got some docs who've attended 2 sessions.

During the provider sessions, we've had another provider more versed in the product with us in the room as support and to field questions from the docs. Doctors listen to doctors. Non-doctors are considered uneducated peons (even if you have lots of university-sponsored wallpaper on your wall). So having an MD in the room is very important. If only to reiterate what you said.

The CEO popped his head in the room during the 2:30 session yesterday. The support provider pulled him back into the hallway to talk.

MD: I don't think the docs are getting it. I'm really concerned.
CEO: But this is the simple version of the product. We'll give them the more complicated stuff in 30-60 days.

Never mind that there is no "simple version of the product." Nice of the MD to try to buy us more time.

Overall - I'm so thrilled at how the training has gone so far that I can hardly contain myself. The timing for all of the classes is down cold. Everyone is getting the information they need. The message is consistent.

I'm a pretty happy camper right now.

Monday, May 07, 2007

Week 1 Day 1 - Losing the Beginners Eye

Today - I learned I need to get out of the classroom. Really.

Take 1 trainer. 90 minutes. 3 hours worth of material. 2 weekends to herself in 2007. and 60-70 hour work weeks. What do you get?

A trainer who delivers the 3 hours worth of material in less than 60 minutes - leaving hypereducated doctors wondering what hit them.

This is why we brought in contractors to do the training. They are bringing fresh energy and patience to a team that has run out of both.

I did 4 sessions back to back with the providers. I had the most crowded classes of the 4 rooms that we had running. And I realized after the 2nd session that I had gotten too far ahead of the students. I had spent so much time in this program I had lost touch of the beginner. I tried to slow things down, explain more patiently, add more exercises - to no avail....

In the afternoon, I helped one of the contract trainers as the teaching aide. Watching her patiently explain the program to the front-desk staff. Watching her engage them in exercises. Pulling interesting analogies and explanations out of the material. Fresh eyes, fresh energy, fresh attitude.

Wednesday - we get our fourth contract trainer. I can then play teachers aide for the rest of the training time. And figure out how to get that beginner's eye back.

Starting Shorthanded

We are starting week 1 - day 1 shorthanded 2 trainers. We didn't find out that one of the contract trainers was not going to make it here until Friday. No replacement. So we are short 1 contract trainer until Wednesday. I've recruited some of the apps team to serve as the MFA representative in one of the rooms while I teach the docs.

We are also still short 1 MFA trainer. I had mentioned a few months ago that she was fighting breast cancer.

Her lumpectomy went well. The cancer had not spread to the lymph nodes. The doctors figured a few weeks of radiation therapy and all would be well.

Then the pathology report came back. Turns out she had a very fast-moving form of the cancer. If she just stuck with the radiation, the chance of it coming back was over 50%. With chemo - the chance of it coming back was less than 10%.

After absorbing the news, she took one of her liveliest friends wig shopping. She's been by a few times this all started to show off her new hair and scarf wardrobe.

She had hoped to continue helping us as her energy allowed - but chemo is kicking her butt.

First, she's suffering from "chemo-brain".

I find myself cleaning house at 5am and I'm not entirely sure why.... The OCD is kicking in HARD.

Her e-mails have also become rambling and somewhat nonsensical. It takes a few times to figure out what she means. She's having a really hard time concentrating. Fortunately, her sense of humor is intact.

Second, her fingers have started cracking and bleeding. They are so painful she can't type.

Despite these health challenges, she is doing incredibly well. We think she's going to come back sometime in August. Stronger and funnier than ever.....

Sunday, May 06, 2007

Working with Contract Trainers

The 2 week delay in the project helped us get our contract trainers ready for the training weeks.

We had them come in at the originally scheduled time to get them familiar with our system and the way we have the Electronic Medical Record configured. Since the software we are using is so highly customizable - we felt that it was important to show them what we did and the background behind our decisions.

After a 3 hour introduction and demo of each of the courses that will be delivered during the training weeks - we set the trainers loose with the trainers guides and the application to hack their way through the system.

I am soooo happy you let us play with the system like this. This helps us A LOT! - the contract trainers.

We had them come back in the 2 business days before the training starts. In the interim - they had a chance to look over the materials a bit more. We had also arranged 2 pilot trainings to allow the trainers to get their first training session out of the way before the real training starts. This helped them get more comfortable with the flow of the training and the types of questions they can expect. We also got a chance to see their training style and how our employees are going to react to them. Even the employees who were "volunteered" to participate found the session useful and helped them get over some of their reservations about this upgrade.

(Our secretarial staff was quite fond of the very good looking male contract trainer. I had never seen them so giddy.....)

We debriefed at the end of each of the pilot sessions: what needed further emphasis and clarification, pacing, their comfort levels.

The contract trainers were happy that they got a chance to see the material first, spend a couple of weeks absorbing, then got a "dress-rehersal" before being thrown to the wolves.

The contract trainers are also thrilled that we are going to team-teach. The time frame is so tight for the amount of material we need to cover that the extra person is going to be helpful for keeping laggards in-line and assisting with classroom management. The fact that the extra person is one of us will help take care of the site-specific questions that are a part of all application training (....But how are we going to doooooo this?)

We've tried to incorporate as much of their workflows as possible into the training materials - but it's nice to have people who are familiar with the specifics of these departments to field questions. I know it makes the contract trainers feel better....

I don't know why I feel this way - but I am really excited that the contract trainers are so happy! My thinking is that the more that we can provide them to be successful - the better off we all are.

I'm hoping to diary each day of this 2 week project (to make up for how slack I've been with posting). This is gonna be good.......